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Daniel Grey's avatar

Guess this was predetermined?

Document 1 Teardown:

"For each of these objections we can ask: how would adding some indeterminism (causal slack we might call it) to the human agent... help to block the dire conclusion?"

False dichotomy. The only options are not "strict determinism" or "random indeterminism." You're ignoring constraint-bounded potentiality—systems where outcomes are neither predetermined nor random but emerge from relational dynamics within constraints. This is a straw man setup. RQM also suggests the third option- but that’s just physics. QM has literally demonstrated determinism cannot hold. 100 years later people still cannot accept it.

"This seems an obvious non sequitur since we clearly have such capacities"

Calling something a "non sequitur" is not an argument. You're labeling, not engaging. If determinism is true, we don't "have" capacities—capacities happen through us. There's no "we" doing the having. The word "have" implies ownership, which implies agency, which you just denied.

"the regress of control has to stop somewhere"

That's not a solution. That's admitting the problem exists and shrugging. "It has to stop somewhere" is not an explanation of where or why.

"Reliable causation in the choice-making process is a requirement for control, not an impediment."

Conflation. Reliable causation ≠ determinism. Systems can have reliable patterns without those patterns being predetermined. Weather is reliably causal but not predictable. You're equating "causation exists" with "everything is predetermined." Those are not the same claim.

"Since most of us are behaviorally flexible creatures with robust control capacities, even if we're fully caused to be who we are and act as we do, it's our very sensitivity to the prospect of praise or blame that justifies their application to us."

Circular. If we're "fully caused," then our "sensitivity to praise or blame" was also fully caused. We didn't develop it. It happened. There's no justification needed because there's no one to justify it to—just dominoes falling. You're smuggling agency back in to justify a system that supposedly doesn't require it.

"Anticipating being held responsible is a powerful motivator for keeping bad behavior in check"

If determinism is true, you can't "motivate" anything. The anticipation was determined. The behavior was determined. The "checking" was determined. You're using agentic language to describe a system you claim has no agents. Pick one.

I also argue that claiming determinism is exactly what many people do to avoid accountability.

"Were we in some respect uninfluenced deciders of our behavior, that would attenuate, not increase, the effectiveness of moral norms in shaping behavior."

Another false dichotomy. "Uninfluenced" is not the alternative to "fully determined." Influenced but not determined is a coherent position. You keep setting up extremes and ignoring the middle.

"Once we've dispensed with the libertarian agent, backwards-looking rationales for reward and punishment might lose their plausibility"

"Might"? If determinism is true, they absolutely lose plausibility. You can't punish someone for something they couldn't have done otherwise. You're hedging because the full commitment reveals the absurdity.

There is no accountability if determinism holds.

"the soul isn't required to secure one's identity, rooted as it is in each person's unique DNA (twins excepted) and developmental history."

"(twins excepted)" — you just admitted your criterion fails immediately. If identity is DNA + developmental history, identical twins with similar environments should have the same identity. They don't. Something else is going on. You waved it away with a parenthetical. One exception disproves the claim. Proving is hard. Disproving is easy. This is why Science is about disproving things, not proving them.

"And the richness of your conscious experience (4) remains, also produced (somehow, an open question!) by the embodied brain"

"Somehow, an open question!" — you're claiming determinism is settled while admitting you don't know how consciousness works. If you don't know how it works, you can't claim it's deterministic. That's not science. That's assumption dressed as conclusion. You have not shown your work.

"We don't take things on faith, but rather observations in principle available to anyone."

You just took determinism on faith. You admitted consciousness is an "open question" but assumed it operates deterministically anyway. That's exactly faith.

"what's the point of the existence of that purpose, of that god and its agenda? For what reason does it exist?"

This applies to your position too. What's the point of determinism? Why does the causal chain exist? You're using an infinite regress argument against meaning while ignoring that it applies equally to your own framework. If "why does it exist" defeats theism, it defeats naturalism too.

"our biological nature, bequeathed to us by evolution, affords us the opportunity to find plenty of local meaning"

"Affords us the opportunity" — that's agency. That's choice. You just said we can "find" meaning. Finding implies searching. Searching implies options. Options imply non-determinism. Your language keeps betraying your thesis.

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